We have a bit of news about Sarah to share with you. This is not a secret so feel free to forward this email to whoever you feel will benefit.

Copied and pasted form LDS Family Fellowship FB group with permission of the participants.

Can I pose a question? This is not a new idea but I am very curious on people’s opinions both in the walls of this group and also within the walls of traditional Mormons (who aren’t informed about LGBT concerns):

If the Atonement applies to ALL sin for ALL people, meaning that through faith, diligence, prayer, and fasting, we can rid ourselves of ANY sin, why are there no examples of ANYONE who has been able to successfully apply the Atonement to SSA? Many have certainly diligently tried.

I know the obvious answer but how does one explain this while still keeping in line with the current teachings of the Church? — with Wendy Williams Montgomery and 5 others.

• Wendy Williams Montgomery likes this.
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  Daniel Parkinson There are 2 NMS posts on this issue: one by William Bradshaw, http://www.nomorestrangers.org/is-the-atonement-out-of-reach/

  June 12 at 3:13pm · Like · 1
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  Daniel Parkinson and another by me:http://www.nomorestrangers.org/no-respecter-of-persons/

  

  No Respecter of Persons

  www.nomorestrangers.org

  From a very early age I was taught that God was fundamentally fair. We were given laws and told to obey. We were taught that we would be punished for disobedience. We were taught that there was an …

  June 12 at 3:14pm · Like · 1 · Remove Preview
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  Jake Abhau These are wonderful blog posts. And are framed well. Thank you Daniel. 
  
  But is this the one question that no one wants to talk about directly because there is no answer? I know for myself, I don’t even like to think of it. Mostly because it turns my world upside down. 
  
  The only parallels that I can draw is when Adam and Eve were asked NOT to partake of the forbidden fruit AND asked to multiply and replenish the Earth. The other is when the commandment of “Thou Shall Not Kill” was evident yet, Nephi was commanded to smite off the head of Laban. Admittedly, these held their own unique circumstances. And both are examples of “exceptions,” not commandments that applied to an enormously large group of people.
  
  There was no way to obey the second commandment without disobeying the first. And since God’s commandments would never contradict, how is this so?
  
  If I may be so blunt as to say: It sounds like the Atonement does not apply to Satan, his followers, and, of course, Gay Mormons.

  June 12 at 3:48pm · Edited · Like · 2
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  Daniel Parkinson I look at it this way. How do we decide what is a commandment? What is the ultimate authority? There are huge contradictions in the bible. There are huge contradictions in modern Mormonism. The only reason we should accept Mormonism in the first place is personal revelation. Therefore we have to rely on the personal revelation to help us manage the contradictions. You can’t honestly say that the church has all the answers. For every answer it gives it raises 50 questions. You also can’t say that church leaders trump personal revelation. We have to have personal revelation to know the basic questions: (ie was Joseph Smith a prophet? is the Book of Mormon scripture?)…but then you need more revelation to proceed (is the LDS church the true church? or the RLDS church?). Then you need further clarifications (is polygamy part of God’s plan? did God really want to withhold the priesthood from Blacks?). And in the end you have to trust your personal confirmation about each of these issues. LGBT people are forced to do this, and they are surprised by the affirming response that God gives them. I suspect that parents of LGBT people have to do it too.

  June 12 at 3:49pm · Like · 3
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  Meg Hendrix Abhau Yes, parents of LGBT kids DO have to do this. I feel like I got VERY confirming revelation that this is not a sin. I said personal because I know there are people who are gay and who still feel like this is a sin. It is too personal a thing to ask someone to see what you see or feel what you feel. But, for me, I do not see it as a sin. I’m certainly entitled to my own personal revelation on this. (I can hear the roars of some of my sisters/church members now) ‘God’s laws are eternal’ ‘what about the FP?’ ‘That’s convenient!’ ‘Don’t listen to your mother heart!’ ‘This is the purpose of Prophets!!’
  
  Sorry, I will not turn off my mother heart. I will listen to my inner self and come to my conclusions. I will not look to my church and say, ‘what do you guys think of my son?’ I will look to my heart and hear what it tells me. I will never tell my son that his love is unnatural or a sin. Never. Not because I want to spare his feelings, but because I believe it in my heart. This sounds apostate, I know, but it really does align with some things the church says and we have all agreed that there are many contradictions in the Bible and our own church. So, the answer for me is to listen to my mother heart and trust that. I was given a heart and a mind of my own. I trust it.

  June 12 at 3:59pm · Like · 8
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  Daniel Parkinson If any of you lack wisdom let him ask of God

  June 12 at 4:00pm · Like · 3
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  Meg Hendrix Abhau Also, I too loved those blog postsDaniel. Thanks for sharing! I also found great comfort in ‘For the Bible Told Me so’.

  June 12 at 4:00pm · Like
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  Jake Abhau The Bible does contradict, I agree. History is inconsistent with itself in maintaining consistent truth.
  BUT:
  in modern times, the Church does not contradict itself in the same period. It can always explain away a change or an adjustment of doctrine but never does it say that Polygamy is right and wrong at the same time.
  
  This is the part of it that does not compute. Is there an answer to this? I know we all have our own personal versions. But what does the church say? What do active members say?

  June 12 at 4:09pm · Like · 1
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  Thomas Palani Montgomery Jake, I have been down this theological road. One thing to note is the conflicting commandments is a situation created by God. I am fairly certain there is no scriptural basis that says God can’t create conflicting commandments. He could and has done just that to create certain situations. On the surface, our need for the Atonement is inherently unfair. While we approach everything with attention on justice and mercy (the Atonement), the fundamental situation was unfair, but voluntarily accepted by man. Our problem is we seek for fairness with only our limited context. Life is full of inequalities and injustice. You could say Mormons and Mormonism is the exception. Very few in this life will even know what the Atonement is or means or have access to the ordinances of salvation.

  June 12 at 4:13pm · Like · 3
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  Thomas Palani Montgomery While I am still an active member, I have learned that not everyone is theologically destined to be a member of the Church or should be. The Church is a living, breathing entity with it’s own life and prejudices. The Bible, while being a record of the ‘Chosen’ people, is more about the rise and fall of those religions/cultures. The Book of Mormon is a record of repeated, cyclical rise and fall of the Church. It is again unfair to expect a perfect evolution of the modern Church as well. I think those who reject the Church for it’s imperfections and mistakes miss the greatest message of scripture: how God relates to his people in different times and places evolves and changes.

  June 12 at 4:28pm · Edited · Unlike · 1
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  Thomas Palani Montgomery Note: It evolves and changes because of the people and times are different, not because God changes. Maybe the City of Enoch got it right and it is why they aren’t here any longer.

  June 12 at 4:30pm · Like · 1
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  Jake Abhau Interesting though Tom. I wonder if there were any gay people in the City of Enoch. Seriously.

  June 12 at 4:31pm · Like · 2
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  Thomas Palani Montgomery Statistically there would be. My personal belief is that as a righteous generation of youth grow to maturity in and accepted by the Church, the revelation will come. Just as with blacks and the priesthood, once the Civil Rights movement had changed the hearts of the majority of the Church and righteous black men were ready, willing and able; the revelation came. But the hearts of the majority of the members of the Church needs to change. Right now they aren’t worthy of our sons.

  June 12 at 4:37pm · Like · 4
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  Thomas Palani Montgomery I say that sadly.

  June 12 at 4:37pm · Like · 2
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  Jake Abhau I should clarify my above question:
  
  I wonder if there were any Gay Couples in the City of Enoch?

  June 12 at 4:40pm · Like
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  Gina Crivello My first reaction to Jake’s question (which is a great Q) is that it must not be a sin, then. God’s laws may never change, but people’s interpretations do. For instance, there are supposedly “clear cut” scriptures supporting slavery and segregation. During the 50′s, Apostle Mark Peterson taught that God wanted segregation and had proof from the Bible and added, “Who are we to change God’s plan?” (Sound familiar? That phrase is used in mormonsandgays, “…for God’s law is not ours to change”). 
  
  People see in the scriptures what they want to see to justify their behavior.
  
  Also, scriptures clearly say the world was created in 6 days, but now members reason it could mean 6 periods. Our understanding changes. We are beginning to understand that what is referred to in the scriptures may not be what was originally intended.

  6 hours ago via mobile · Edited · Like · 3
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  Jake Abhau The obvious argument here is that the Atonement need not apply to those with SSA, only those who “act ” on it. So, in theory, the Church has no explaining to do on this topic. However, in Ether, we read that weaknesses can become strengths. It is not any sort of stretch to think that the SSA “weakness” could be changed into a strength (turning straight or no longer having the SSA temptation) though I’ve yet to hear of this happening. So my question still stands.
  
  I hope that makes sense.

  June 12 at 4:47pm · Edited · Like · 1
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  Thomas Palani Montgomery Again, touching on slavery, I don’t think God ever justifies slavery, but he is working with the people he has. Look at the price our society had to pay to end slavery. Hundreds of thousands died and we barely won.

  June 12 at 4:48pm · Like · 1
• JaneAlly Wonderful discussion. I tend to agree with Meg…I will follow my own heart. I know what I know and I feel what I feel. The gospel is important to me and I know all is well. I know that my son was created from the beginning of time just like I was. I am OK with not knowing all the answers right now. I am willing to wait until the next life to receive the rest. In the meantime I love unconditionally and accept with open arms all those that are in my life.

  June 12 at 4:49pm · Like · 2
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  Thomas Palani Montgomery I think the Biblical scriptures have the least amount of weight to Mormons in discussing homosexuality. The real contexts are where and how they fit into the Plan of Salvation and the ‘Overcoming the Natural Man’ discussions. Mormons allow modern revelation to trump the Bible all the time (See Leviticus 2, we don’t believe most of it.)

  June 12 at 4:51pm · Like · 2
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  Thomas Palani Montgomery Elder Holland said in the last conference, “So be kind regarding human frailty – your own as well as that of those who serve with you in a Church led by volunteer, mortal men and women. Except in the case of His only perfect Begotten Son, imperfect people are all God has ever had to work with. That must be terribly frustrating to Him, but He deals with it. So should we. And when you see imperfection, remember that the limitation is not in the divinity of the work. As one gifted writer has suggested, when the infinite fullness is poured forth, it is not the oil’s fault if there is some loss because finite vessels can’t quite contain it all. Those finite vessels include you and me, so be patient and kind and forgiving.”

  June 12 at 4:54pm · Like · 2
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  Jake Abhau Couldn’t agree more. And that’s what I am referring to. Modern revelation. And, of course Jane is correct, all that matters is that we love and rear our children as best we know how to. But Tom, I think you and I probably tend to over think things (maybe to our own detriment)  
  
  But I can’t get enough of it. I am a seeker of knowledge. But, in this case, I am probably seeking for knowledge that just doesn’t matter to me in my life because of what Jane pointed out.
  
  But I still can’t help discussing it.

  June 12 at 4:55pm · Like · 1
• JaneAlly Love Thomas and Jake…”endure to the end” is a phrase I completely understand”. But while I am enduring I plan on partaking of much happiness within the walls of my own home. My husband pointed out while we were daing that the only thing you take of importance after you leave this earth is relationships. I know my son is suppose to be a part of our family. I love him and my other five children. I want the best for him as he travels through life. I want him to feel love, know how to love, how to serve, and how to leave a positive blue print on everything he does. I will be by his side along the way. Of course, I want him to stay close to God because I feel like if he does his life will be blessed with much greatness. He is an incredible spirit and I am proud to be his Mom.

  June 12 at 5:01pm · Like
• JaneAlly I guess what I am trying to say is that it doesn’t matter to me what “I don’t know”. That will all come in time. (sorry for rambling).

  June 12 at 5:04pm · Edited · Like · 1
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  Thomas Palani Montgomery My opinion is that the revelation can’t come to the Church as a whole because they are not worthy or ready for it. Some day it will be. Our Stake President said in one of our first meetings, “You know, you guys are way ahead of the curve on this one.”

  June 12 at 5:03pm · Like · 2
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  Thomas Palani Montgomery It’s almost like you have to trust and have faith…..

  June 12 at 5:04pm · Like · 2
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  Gina Crivello I know what you mean, Jake (“But I can’t get enough of it. I am a seeker of knowledge”). I’ve been studying scriptures that have been used to persecute gay people. I don’t care what they say because it isn’t going to change that it’s simply wrong to be hateful and prejudice, but I had to see for myself, nonetheless.
  
  ‘Modern revelation trumps scripture,’ but they had to learn their understanding from somewhere…an understanding passed down for hundreds of years and where no one dared question in fear of consequences.
  
  (I’ve taken so long to write this on my phone that the topic has probably moved on – LOL)

  7 hours ago via mobile · Edited · Like · 2
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  Jake Abhau Thomas, I love how you are going to be able to use that line from your SP for good and bad through the years. I, like you, am hoping it was a compliment. Either way, he is right. It’s a nice place to be. Ahead.

  June 12 at 5:07pm · Like · 1
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  Thomas Palani Montgomery It was kind of a comment that said ‘You are way ahead of me’ and ‘I am not comfortable where you are’ all at the same time. I am not sure he knew which.

  June 12 at 5:08pm · Like · 2
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  Caleb Herlin The Plan of Salvation and the whole “overcoming the natural man”… In terms of the latter, I think people like to render a distinction between gay and straight where they should be drawing one between lust and love. I wouldn’t hesitate to trust God’s servants less than God Himself–our Father and Creator, and the order of the universe He Created wouldn’t make any sense to me if the distinction between good and bad sexuality was straight and gay rather than commitment and promiscuity. What I fell like gets in the way for most people here is the question of how gay couples would function in the eternities–and with what we do know about sexual orientation and its unchangingness, it seems frankly impossible that to me that there is something we do not know about the role of gay people and couples in the Plan of Salvation. Really, the whole Plan of Salvation is enormous and ridiculously complicated. Our scriptures give us its basic layout, but to give every detail of God’s plan would fill more libraries than we have in the world. The eternal role of His gay and lesbian children in general is obviously a bit of a larger detail, but for such a detail to remain hidden can be seen as part of God’s plan and His purposes, and we can clearly see at least part of the reason He would delay such a (general) revelation. The principle of revelation is a huge part of the reason I personally love the Gospel, and I’m trying to seek and work off of my own personal revelation whilst also praying that the prophets will seek for and obtain revelation concerning all we yet do not know about God’s LGBT children.

  June 12 at 5:23pm via mobile · Like · 2
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  Thomas Palani Montgomery There was a comment recently on Mormons Building Bridges quoting Elder Oaks as saying the Church has received a ton of backlash (from members) regarding www.mormonsandgays.org. The writer noted that perhaps the website was as far as the Church could go in the current Church culture. The people have to change in order to receive higher revelations.

  

  Love One Another: A Discussion on Same-Sex Attraction

  www.mormonsandgays.org

  This official website does not offer a comprehensive explanation of everything r…See More

  June 12 at 5:28pm · Like · 2
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  Gina Crivello Caleb– big YES and amen to “commitment” vs “promiscuity,” “lust” vs “love.”

  June 12 at 6:01pm via mobile · Like · 1
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  Gina Crivello I had been thinking about Oaks’ comment the other day. Tongue in cheek: Is the church afraid that if they were too radical about making things right with the LGBTQI community that they may drive away members? So… those who want to hold onto discrimination leave while those who want to love stay (and return)? Is that such a bad thing?

  June 12 at 6:05pm via mobile · Like · 2
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  Caleb Herlin That surprises me that there would be backlash from the more bigoted members because of Church leaders saying…anything, really. I was under the impression that bigotry in the Church thrived on adhering to the anything and everything the apostles say as if they themselves were God.

  June 12 at 6:43pm via mobile · Like · 1
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  Jake Abhau History (blacks and the priesthood) suggests otherwise.

  June 12 at 6:54pm via mobile · Like
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  Thomas Palani Montgomery History: Old Testament (Moses, loss of higher law), New Testament (Peter, gospel to gentiles & eventual apostasy) Book of Mormon (continuous pride cycle) and D&C (consecration, polygamy, apostasy of Church leaders) would suggest otherwise.

  June 12 at 6:57pm · Like · 1
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  Tom Christofferson Some random thoughts: first, some in Northstar feel that they have been able to apply the atonement to function in a way that is fulfilling to them in marriage with an opposite gender partner; that isn’t my experience but it is obviously not my place to judge the psychological or spiritual “wholeness” of someone else’s experience. Second, a well-meaning church friend once told me he was confident that gay couples would at some point be able to be sealed in the temple, would hold to the same standard of fidelity and commitment, and would have a resurrection in a portion of the Celestial Kingdom working alongside of and in support of those who would continue create and multiply. He quoted another gay friend as saying that it wouldn’t be heaven to him if he was without his partner and suddenly matched with a woman in order to progress. I told him I appreciate the positive intent of his thinking but I don’t see a situation where our Heavenly Father would have created some of us in a way that forecloses the possibility of attaining the kind of eternal life that allows full association with Him and continued progress. Third, the current stance of the church is that there is no sin in being gay, their concern is with any sexual activity outside of heterosexual marriage, which says to me that at least at some level there is no conflict with being gay and the Plan of Salvation. Sorry this has rambled — I very much like and agree with Caleb’s comment about the goal being to seek personal relegation about what our Heavenly Father would have us individually do in light of our own circumstances.

  June 12 at 8:56pm via mobile · Like · 2
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  Daniel Parkinson My broader theological argument is this (and it was similarly stated above by some of the other people who have posted here): God and the universe are so impossibly complex, that our human brains can’t possibly understand them. We are given a narrative that may be true (eternal families, and eternal progression that includes creating like God does) but is also an EXTREME simplification of what will happen in the afterlife (as Caleb nicely points out above). We have this narrative that says that in order to participate in the highest degree of glory you have to do it as part of an eternal marriage, but that leaves out millions of details (thanks again Caleb). We don’t really truly know what is the process that leads to creation in the afterlife, so we are given a metaphor that it is like pro-creating in this life. Gay people are left out of the narrative, but I doubt it has occured to any modern prophets to ask God about their place in the plan.
  
  Meanwhile, Jake, I see the atonement as a separate issue. Christ died for all the sins. He even died for the murderers. I don’t see any sin as being excluded from Christ’s atonement. Each sin requires repentance, and the repentance is obviously more complicated for murder than for minor things, so it is all perspective. 
  
  I don’t buy into the idea that God consider’s it a sin for me to enter into a committed long-term relationship…so that is where the hoped for revelation will hopefully clarify. But even if it is, Christ’s atonement covers everything, and we will have even have a chance to repent in the next life (furthermore every human will have to repent of at least something in the next life…no one can even go a full day without some sin). After we accept the atonement we will be assigned the kingdom that we belong in based on a completely fair judgement. 
  
  This is all based on my understanding of Mormon doctrine, (and not necessarily what I believe personally).

  June 13 at 12:47am · Edited · Like · 3
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  Jake Abhau Great thoughts, Tom (non rambling thoughts, that is).
  A co worker of mine framed it this way for me today. He is unaffected by homosexuality other than the fact he knows my son. And I can’t really see where I disagree with what he said:
  
  “While I’ll be the first to admit I do not understand even a fraction of the atonement, you can make the argument that a defining result of the atonement is progression. Progression that is caused by a ‘change’ in oneself.
  
  We are all unclean and for us to become ‘at one’ with God, we must change. This would suggest that we, not only no longer sin, but that we no longer have disposition to do evil. Power over temptation. Power over the desire to ‘act out’ on our ‘sinful’ wants and desires.
  
  If actively being gay is a sin, wouldn’t the atonement be able to be applied here somehow? Couldn’t we use it to change our ungodly desires? Why can the alcoholic use the atonement to rid himself off the desire to drink but not the homosexual for his desires? Why does it appear to have limits in its power?
  
  Could it possibly be because changing homosexuality would not yield progression, the exact result of its incredible power? Could homosexuality be a pathway of progression that we simply do not understand yet? I don’t know. There is no way to know. But so many of us have applied Moroni’s promise to this topic and we seem to all come to the same comforting conclusion. There is a reason we are here. A reason we meet online with one another. I don’t know what I did to be so fortunate to be part of this group but I thank you all for letting me in. It’s an incredible journey.

  June 13 at 12:49am via mobile · Like · 5
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  Jake Abhau Daniel, I think we’re saying some of the same things here. Thanks for your comments.

  June 13 at 12:52am via mobile · Like · 1
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  Jake Abhau Meg told me that I may not have been clear about the point I am making above. So let me be now:
  
  How can being in a committed homosexual relationship be a sin if the atonement can’t make a gay person straight?

  June 13 at 8:41am via mobile · Like · 2
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  Jake Abhau Meg and I just had an interesting conversation and here’s the result:
  
  She asked me if I thought that acting out on Homosexuality was a sin. She was expecting a yes or no answer to this question.
  
  But I say this. According to Webster, Sin is:
  Noun
  An immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law.
  
  Divine law? How do we describe this? With so many different opinions, how do we even know what divine law is? The answer to me is simple. Divine Law is the law of God based on the individual defining it’s understanding. This means that if you, in your deepest heart think that it is a sin, it probably is (to you). But if you do not, then it’s not.
  
  We can only be judged on what we know to be true and right. This is why we have the Holy Ghost. It guides us. It teaches us. It helps us understand. And if we are acting in accordance to what the Holy Ghost (God, Himself) teaches us, how can we go wrong?
  
  So, is it a sin?
  
  My answer:
  Who am I to judge? It certainly doesn’t feel like it. And if it doesn’t feel like it, then how can it be?

  June 13 at 11:00am · Unlike · 2
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  Daniel Parkinson I don’t think the atonement removes desire for sin from our lives. We all sin, and we all sin again after we repent. The atonement allows that we can progress in spite of the sin, and be forgiven so the sin doesn’t become a barrier to eternal progression. And the atonement applies to every sin and everybody who accepts it regardless of when they accept it (this life or the next).
  And furthermore, after the judgement, Satan is cast out and there is no more desire for sin.
  
  So what about committed homosexual relationships? 
  
  To start with, if there is sin in a committed homosexual relationship what is the sin? The fact that there are sexual relationships? what if there are none and it is just a commitment with no sexual relationship (like my cousin and her partner). Are they sinning because they live together and support each other economically? Or are they sinning because they are committed to each other? Or are they sinning because they are refusing to look for temple marriages with men (at age 65)? Would it be a bigger sin if they protected their financial security by getting married (this is a real scenario…and my cousin would never get married because she is a mormon, and they are paying a huge economic price for that). Are they sinning because they love each other?
  
  So if the sin is only the sexual relationship, should gay men look for a way to have a fulfilling relationship with one another, but remain celibate?
  
  This is hard for gay people at accept, and it is hard for their families to accept too, because we see the unfairness of it, and we can’t accept that god is unfair. So the only other alternative is to believe that it isn’t a sin. Most church leaders don’t have that same kind of reservation. They don’t have any trouble seeing an unfair God. And of course we see all around us examples of God’s unfairness, so it is easy to hang on to the notion that God allows unfairness to exist on the earth, and that he will correct it in the end. However….we as LGBT people and allies know that he will have to correct it in a REAL way, and to us the correction of the unfairness really only makes sense as a correction of the theology, not a correction of the LGBT individuals.
  
  We don’t know what will be considered a sin in the next life, and we don’t know what will be relevant about sex, chastity, pro-creation, so we can’t really know what would be the place of homosexual relationships in the next life. We don’t know what will be allowed or forbidden as far as love, commitment, affection. But we do know that we will no longer desire sin.

  June 13 at 11:04am · Edited · Like · 2
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  Jake Abhau You bring up many great points, Daniel. It’s a whole lot of grey that most people will never have to face.
  
  As far as the atonement (my understanding). If, in fact, the “gay” is removed from gay people at the end of this life (no one wants that, I know but if it is truly a sin, you would think that would be the case), but if it is, it is the atonement that will do it. It should be able to do that in this lifetime, too.
  
  Again, I am only speaking within the framework of the Mormon Church. That is what this question is all about.
  
  Disclaimer: I personally, do not think gay people will be straight after we die. Just as I don’t think straight people will be gay.

  June 13 at 11:24am · Like · 1
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  Jan Martin I am Jake‘s mom. This conversation has been very helpful for me as I navigate my journey in regard to this issue. I wanted to thank all of you for taking the time to write such thought provoking words.

  June 13 at 12:14pm via mobile · Like · 3
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  Gina Crivello Sister Martin, you have a wonderful son, a beautiful and loving DIL, and a talented, fabulous grandson. The Crivello’s love your family.

  June 13 at 12:31pm via mobile · Like · 3
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  Jan Martin How could you not! They are amazing. Thanks.

  June 13 at 12:33pm via mobile · Unlike · 3
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  Daniel Parkinson I agree Jan Martin, you did something right, and must be an amazing matriarch. I wish there were more families like yours in the church.

  June 13 at 12:34pm · Like · 4
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  Meg Hendrix Abhau Agreed! Daniel, she IS amazing!! We are so lucky.

  June 13 at 1:37pm via mobile · Like · 3
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  Carolyn Law Herlin I’m reading a book right now called “The God Who Weeps: How Mormonism Makes Sense of Life” by Terryl and Fiona Givens. It doesn’t talk about homosexuality, but it has a discussion of the atonement that I think may be pertinent to this discussion. I’m not able to adequately summarize what they say right now. I need to finish the book and read it a couple more times. I just want to recommend the book.
  
  And yes, Caleb, I know you’re supposed to underline or italicize book titles, not put them in quotes. I just can’t figure out how to underline or italicize on this device I’m using.

  June 13 at 2:30pm via mobile · Like
• JaneAlly I feel a group party coming on! It is great to have such a group to vent to and learn from.

  June 13 at 3:12pm · Like · 4
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  Alexander Shafer As a gay youth in the church, I constantly tried to use the atonement to “heal” me of my homosexuality. Personal revelation told me that it was ok to be gay, and yet I persisted in my mistaken belief that I needed to change. This belief was imposed on me by imperfect men, who were trying to grapple with a situation that isn’t clearly laid out. It unfortunately caused me to trust some very shady theories on human sexuality, which both my own experience and the experience of thousands of others have proven false. That’s what I get for “trusting in the arm of flesh” (bogus psychotherapy- I should note though that good therapy founded in sound ideas has a very productive and positive result). 
  
  Being gay isn’t a sin, and it isn’t possible for it to be a sin. Otherwise it could be repented of. Being straight isn’t a sin either. There can be nothing inherently sinful for being, unless we believe in original sin all of the sudden. Therefore, desire is also not a sin, but for some purpose. For a heterosexual person, that has been explained. Sometimes not knowing leads gay people to think they are broken, not part of God’s plan. This simply can’t be. 
  
  God’s knowledge and plan are a lot bigger than any of us. It’s best to think of this as an individual thing, that God has a purpose and plan for gay people that hasn’t been revealed to the church at large (mostly because of ignorance and not being willing to learn). It’s uncharted waters, but it’s ok that some people choose a different path. We’re taught to respect that, and I think we need to respect the agency of gay people to choose the best path or what they believe is the best path. Trusting that they might know something about themselves that other members don’t know (I speak from plenty of personal experience here). I think people are learning and receiving light and knowledge, and this group is evidence of that. And that’s a beautiful thing. “Ask and ye shall receive.” I think there’s a lot of light and knowledge still to come.

  June 13 at 4:59pm · Like · 10
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  Jake Abhau I want to thank everyone who participated in this discussion. It was very educational to learn from all of the different perspectives. I find it fascinating how we all learn to “cope” with understanding of this topic. 
  
  All in all, this issue doesn’t really matter to me. I have enough faith in my God that the good people of this world will be blessed. And I have already been so blessed to have been accepted into this world with such wonderful and beautiful people.
  
  Thank you for accepting me (despite my straightness).

  Friday at 10:14am · Like · 4
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  Randall Thacker John Gustav-Wrathall see this thread

  Friday at 10:16am · Like
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  John Gustav-Wrathall I’m not sure I have a lot more to add to a very thorough and great discussion here…
  
  All I can really contribute is my own personal experience with this. I originally came at this with the assumption that same-sex sexuality was completely sinful.
  
  I feel the Lord challenged this assumption through a series of powerful personal and spiritual experiences that took place over the course of decades. I think I’ve finally come to a place where I understand that my gayness is an essential and good part of who I am, and that my relationship with my husband (going on 21 years now) is part of the good destiny God intended for me in this life.
  
  The Atonement does apply in my life all the time…!!! I need forgiveness and renewal every day of my life. I make mistakes all the time. But at one point it came clear to me that it is not my relationship with my husband Göran that is the sin or the problem, it was my failures to fully honor and be true to that relationship as I ought.
  
  FWIW.

  Friday at 2:13pm · Like · 8
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  Wendy Williams Montgomery I have been loving this conversation! How wonderful it is that we all have a place like this to talk about these issues and ask hard questions. This is my personal feeling: I think we should level the playing field and not have double standards. What applies to straight youth (and adults) should also apply to gay youth (and adults). If it’s okay for a straight couple to hold hands, hug, kiss, etc. it should be okay for a gay couple to do the same. When it comes to intimacy, I think the same thing should apply. No sex before marriage and total fidelity after marriage – whether you are gay and straight. Jordan has the same rules and expectations to live by that all our other children have. I may be naive and ignorant to hope that he will wait to be in a committed, monogamous before he has sex, but that is what I hope for and we strongly encourage him to do. But by the time he is old enough and ready to be in a relationship, hopefully gay marriage will be legal in CA. If we call pre-marital sex a sin – then it should be for gay and straight couples equally. We had a leader tell us that even gay people holding hands is grounds for discipline. I completely disagree with this. We need to create equal ground for gay couples. It is the only fair way to handle this.

  Friday at 2:38pm · Unlike · 10
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  Gina Crivello I watched a documentary (Trembling Before God) about orthodox gay Jews wanting to continue to be orthodox. It was one rabbi’s counsel that as long as the committed gay couple (or straight couples) didn’t engage in sodomy then he didn’t see the problem… It was that one particular act (in his understanding) that was forbidden and that other intimacy was okay. Other rabbis didn’t hold the same view.
  
  The documentary showed me the scriptures weren’t specific, and things were assumed. In interviewing couples, it also showed that it’s a false assumption that gay equates desire for that one particular act.
  
  I agree, Wendy, about the same standards.

  6 hours ago via mobile · Edited · Like
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  Daniel Parkinson But it is interesting that the Mormon Church has pretty much stayed out of married people’s bedrooms (lately). The same sexual practices that were once considered sodomy are not worthiness issues for Temple Married Couples, neither is it discussed in ecclesiastical interviews (I hope). Even though large families are encouraged there has never been a prohibition of family planning and contraception (that I know of). 
  However, Gina, that Rabbi’s attitude is interesting because he took the time and thought to ask the same question: What exactly is the sin?

  3 hours ago · Edited · Like · 2
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  Meg Hendrix Abhau I can’t imagine the earful my bishop would get if I was asked about my sex life. Starting with *none of your business!!* and maybe ending with *you’ve got some nerve!!*.
  It should be the same for gay couples.

  Friday at 3:07pm via mobile · Like · 1
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  Carolyn Law Herlin Our bishop disciplined my son for having a same-sex relationship status on Facebook, regardless of any physical contact that was or was not going on. He seemed to be worried about the publicity more than anything.

  Friday at 3:30pm via mobile · Like
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  Daniel Parkinson How long ago was that Carolyn

  Friday at 3:31pm · Like
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  Daniel Parkinson ?

  Friday at 3:31pm · Like
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  Carolyn Law Herlin About 2 years ago. My son was about 16 or 17 at the time. He is almost 19 now.

  Friday at 3:35pm via mobile · Like
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  Daniel Parkinson I hope the new website helps shut down that type of response.

  Friday at 3:39pm · Like · 1
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  Carolyn Law Herlin I should add that we later met with the stake president who told the bishop to back off.

  Friday at 3:40pm via mobile · Unlike · 5
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  Tom Christofferson This has been a fascinating conversation to catch up on today (finally had time to read everything in full), thanks Jake for including me!

  Friday at 4:14pm · Like
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  Tom Christofferson I had a conversation with my parents several years ago some time after I had returned to active participation in the church. We were talking about what they prayed for with regard to me and the gospel. It was a long and loving conversation, including expression of their affection and appreciation for Clarke, my partner now of seventeen years. In the end we concluded that the best prayer was one of gratitude to our Heavenly Father that in His love He made possible the atoning sacrifice of our Savior, of confidence that His judgements are righteous, His knowledge and understanding are greater than ours, and a plea that while striving to know and follow His voice that we would feel His peace.  For my parents and for me, knowing that we have been united in our prayers has been a source of strength and comfort to us.

  Friday at 4:40pm · Like · 8
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  Jake Abhau Fantastic, Tom. Really. I’m glad you have such amazing parents.

  Friday at 4:42pm via mobile · Like
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  Tom Christofferson sorry, not sure why the Return key keeps sending the message rather than adding a paragraph. I wanted to add that, like Nephi, I was born of goodly parents, a blessing for which I am constantly grateful. Reading the comments above from other goodly parents who are striving to reconcile love for the Savior, His gospel and for their children, siblings and grandchildren, I’m sure they likewise are and will be as grateful for your love and support and fighting spirit on their behalf!

  Friday at 4:44pm · Like · 3
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  Caleb Herlin Pssst…you can add a paragraph break using shift+enter. ^^’

  Friday at 5:11pm via mobile · Like · 2
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  Tom Christofferson Thanks!

  Friday at 5:18pm via mobile · Like · 1

The prophets told them that they must pass righteous judgment on the sinners among them, and cast them out if they would not repent.

And there were some among them who would not repent.  These people seemed to have no desire to repent. These people committed a sin that God hated above all other sins.  God reserved a special hatred for this sin, for it was like unto murder.

The people who had this sin within them had a hard time understanding, because it seemed that God had created them with no real power to overcome this sin. So they wondered if God hated them. They asked themselves “Why would Heavenly Father do that to anyone?” They were told they had chosen this sin, but they could not remember making a choice. They knew that this was part of them, and so they could only conclude that it was some kind of special curse: that they were afflicted, that they were inferior, that they not worthy of the love of God, or of their families, or of the church.

These people tried to overcome this sin. They sacrificed everything. They sacrificed any chance of close human relationship and lived in isolation. They were told that if they were righteous, this condition would be removed from them. They were told that if they had enough faith, God would grant a miracle to them. They were told that God could not refuse the pleas of a humble repentant seeker. So they fasted. They prayed. They struggled. They lived the commandments. They engaged in good works and sincere repentance. But they didn’t get rewarded. It seemed that God hated them.

They turned to the modern prophets. The words of the modern prophets clarified that God would rather see them dead than to fall into this sin. Many of these people knew that they could not live alone, and could not live with the despair, so many of them took their own lives.

This caused great pain to their families, although a few of the families were relieved. They were relieved that they would not have to withstand the public embarrassment of having such a vile sinner in their family, even if they loved their son and brother, or sister and daughter. Others were relieved that their child had saved himself/herself from God’s punishment by taking their own life before they indulged in the sin that was consuming them.

Meanwhile the Saints made sure that they kept the house of the Lord clean, by casting these sinners from their midst. The cast them off with no mercy as God would have them do. They cast their young people into the streets, where they were persecuted, abused, starved. They understood that in order to show love to these sinners they must never tolerate their sin. They understood that tolerating the sin was contributing to their damnation. They understood that God has a limit of tolerance, because it is better to suffer now than to spend an eternity in hell. They understood that they should not try to minister to the suffering of these sinners. They knew that by granting them any legal protections that they would be hastening their condemnation, so they showed love by battling against their legal rights. They also knew that they couldn’t giving any legitimacy to these people–for that would lead to more people being drawn into that sin. They knew that anybody plagued by this sin or this desire should hide it and take the secret to their grave, and didn’t want to encourage any of these people to feel good about their degraded selves. They knew that God wanted these people to suffer on this earth as long as they were sinning, because that is God’s justice for such sinners.

Some of these vile sinners managed to hide their sin, so no one found out. They were allowed in the churches and temples, where they were reminded every week that they were lesser, and that they didn’t deserve God’s favor. A few of them even managed to convince themselves that by hiding it and living extremely pure lives that their burden would be lifted. However, their burden was never lifted, and they came to understand that it was because of their inferior faith and inferior effort.

Meanwhile, the righteous people of God grew stronger, knowing that the sinners were cast from their midst. And God rewarded their obedience.

But there rose among these people a few individuals who placed great importance on a different commandment. These few believed in the importance of different scripture teachings. They believed that the higher commandment was to “love thy neighbor”. They heeded a scripture that said “judge not”. They felt moved when they read “if you have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, you have done it unto me”.  They took heart when a modern seer said “Don’t judge me because I sin differently from you”. These few decided to share the burden. These few decided to face rejection too, so that they could show love and support to these outcasts. These few showed great courage and faced harsh criticism. Some of these few were even cast out too.

However, these few began to change the attitudes of God’s people.

So I ask you: Is God pleased with these few people?

—————————-

There are two conflicting scriptural messages about honoring parents.

Of course, there is the fifth commandment: “Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee” (Exodus 20: 12).

But then there was Christ’s more iconoclastic approach: “If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple” (Luke 14:26). Or try this one on for size: “Call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven” (Matthew 23:9). If we deny that any earthly individual has a right to claim the title of father, it threatens to moot the fifth commandment all together, a point not lost on Rabbi Jacob Neusner in his critique of New Testament ethics (see Jacob Neusner, A Rabbi Talks with Jesus [Image, 1994]).

Many LGBT people have had the experience of utter rejection by their parents, merely for being truthful about their sexual orientation. The idea of honor can lose meaning in that framework as well, though many LGBT individuals do their best to honor parents even under difficult circumstances. There was a time when I could relate better to Christ’s ethic of honesty over honor than I could to the Old Testament ethic of absolute obedience to parents. It seemed to me that if my parents considered it an offense to be honest about who I was, then I was better off without parents.

To come out as gay or lesbian once meant being excommunicated from familial patterns and relationships. Your parents disowned you, and it was assumed that without heterosexual marriage, parenthood was no longer a prospect for you. You were outside of family.

I grew up expecting to be and looking forward to being a father. And there was a time in my coming-out journey when I grieved the loss of family, and the loss of the prospect of fatherhood. Yet, here I am, more than two decades after I thought all those dreams had died, and I have a very close relationship with my father, and with my husband’s father. As I write this essay, I have a sixteen-year-old son leaning against my shoulder, reading what I write as I write it! I have another son who recently finished his junior year in college. My home state of Minnesota just passed a law that will officially recognize Göran’s and my marriage on August 1 of this year. Father’s Day has become an important holiday in our home. My husband Göran insists on it! Who’d a thunk!

It’s comforting, as a gay man, to be able to participate in the rituals and celebrations of fatherhood. A few months before our first son Glen was placed in our home, I was deeply touched when a young woman in my LDS ward who knew of the coming placement knowingly smiled, congratulated me and Göran, and handed me a treat at the end of that Father’s Day Sacrament Meeting. That this was in the context of Church made it especially moving.

As American public opinion moves toward inclusion of gay men and lesbians in the social constellations of marriage, parenting, and family, and as, increasingly, lesbians and gay men are celebrating Mother’s Day and Father’s Day, both as children of affirming parents, and as parents themselves, I find my mind drawn back to that seeming clash between two biblical principles, one that affirms earthly fatherhood, and one that at least interrogates it, if not outright denying it.

Christ, in his iconoclastic statements about fatherhood, was upholding the prior, and more important commandment of not having any other gods before God. It makes me ponder, at least, what it means to be a father who eschews all forms of idolatry.

It makes me want to be the kind of father who understands the danger of abusing parental power (à la D&C 121); to understand that my primary ministry as a father is to protect and to nurture. It makes me want to be the kind of father who shows his sons (or daughters) the value of truth in how he lives, rather than demanding obedience “because I said so.” It makes me want to be the kind of father who points those in his care to God, God being the only one with an absolute claim to the kind of allegiance too often usurped by idolatrous convention.

It’s really hard being a dad. It’s hard parenting teenagers! It’s hard finding that balance between letting them learn, and protecting them; between giving them what they want, and giving them what they need; between knowing when and how to teach your kids, and when and how to learn from them. I love being a dad. I wouldn’t give it up for anything in the world. And it also makes me completely crazy sometimes. I’ve never appreciated my dad as much as I do now. It gives me insight into the nature and the challenges of God’s love for us.

It has often been pointed out by Christian theologians that one of the most important teachings in the ministry of Jesus was his emphasis on the parental nature of God’s relationship to us. Jesus brought God closer to us by referring to God almost exclusively as “Father.” The term used in the Lord’s prayer is “Abba,” a child’s term of endearment for a father, like the English word “pappa.” Jesus emphasized the accessibility of God when he insisted time and again that “he that hath seen me hath seen the Father” (John 14:9).

Most of the Christian world has distanced itself from the radical implications of this central teaching of Christ, suggesting as C.S. Lewis famously did in Mere Christianity that when Christ showed us God as Father, he did so only as a metaphor. Through Christ — most “orthodox” Christians insist — we become like sons and daughters of God, but when push comes to shove, we are creations of God, not children. (The corollary: Christ, one with the Father, is God to us, not Elder Brother.) Mormons notoriously (to the horror of much of “orthodox” Christianity) insist the opposite: that we are children of God in some very literal sense, with all the divine potential that implies somehow embedded in our spiritual DNA. Furthermore, in Mormon theology, in the immortal words of Eliza R. Snow, the thought that in the Heavens parents are single “makes reason stare”! The families we form are models of the divine family in Heaven, a family that includes mothers as well as fathers.

I understand how that familial imagery of divinity has frequently been devastatingly applied in Mormon culture, laying heavy burdens on childless couples, on single people, and, of course, on gay and lesbian people. But Mormonism taught me to approach God with trust, the way I would a loving and nurturing parent; to seek and trust his immediate, personal guidance. Mormonism taught my parents how to be loving, nurturing models of divinity in our home. And as I have accepted the Spirit’s promptings to become a parent myself, I have learned that that divine potential exists within me, and within the partnership I’ve formed with my husband. I’ve learned that the best teacher of divinity is love, the kind of love that resides and grows within families. And that love does not discriminate against and does not distance itself from gay and lesbian couples. That love invites us to enter into the divine love, if we dare. Gay men and lesbians can, like all of God’s children, learn that divine love through emulation.

This, to me, is the bridge between the truth in the fifth commandment, and the truth in Christ’s iconoclastic approach to earthly families. Our families — even gay families — are a schoolhouse for divine family. Joseph Smith insisted they were not just a schoolhouse, but a kernel for, a seed of divine family. So they deserve our honor and our respect; not an idolatrous honor, but an honor full of hope and full of faith in the eternal potential of parental love.

I get to hear a lot of great stories, as well as deeply sad stories, from all the families of gay people who contact me.  Here, to help us celebrate Father’s Day, is an excerpt from an email I received recently:

Dear Carol Lynn,

I wanted to let you know I found good homes for all of the books you sent. I love your books!  I am so grateful that my husband has loved them as well. He has been glued to them and has devoured them all. I have a little anecdote I want to share with you, but first I want to give you a little background on him. He is a physician whose pedigree is full of pioneers and republicans, his dad was a stake president and a Patriarch and he was recently released as a Bishop of a BYU singles student ward where he lovingly handed out copies of The Miracle of Forgiveness.  Now for the funny story…..

Two days ago we were at the hospital where my husband had surgery. It was on that day that he had his own “coming out” announcement. As the nurses were wheeling him through the double doors out of the recovery room, he had a big grin on his face (of course he was looped due to the drugs and anesthesia).  He loudly and unabashedly proclaimed to me and everyone else on the hospital floor, “I’ve been telling everyone that I have a gay son and I really don’t mind if they all know about it because I am now pro gay marriage, and a democrat!”

He’s a believer. Thanks for getting him on board!  Keep up the good work. This is how the church will change, one by one.

Best to you,

M.

So here’s a cheer and a hug and a red carnation for all the fathers who keep the faith–faith in God, faith in themselves, and faith in their gay children!

When I was in first grade, I wasn’t so different from all the other Mormon boys in my class. Like them, I couldn’t wait for the bell signaling the end of the school day to ring. But unlike them, I didn’t run to the playground to toss the ball or head to a friend’s house to hang out. I got home as quickly as I could, because right after school the local television station aired reruns of the original Star Trek series — and I had a great, big, school-boy crush on Captain James T. Kirk.

At 6 years old, I lacked the vocabulary to be able to explain to anyone that I was gay, but my identity was formed nonetheless. All I knew was I liked the way my heart beat a little faster when Captain Kirk was in my life for that hour each day after school — and that Captain Kirk was the guy I wanted to give my first-grade Valentine to.

My story isn’t unique. As kids, straight or gay, each of us had someone who made our heart skip a beat. If you ask any adult, they can almost without fail tell you the name of their first crush. If it was a heterosexual crush, likely it was met with kind teases and coos from parents, friends, and other adults. But if it was a homosexual crush, it was questioned and shamed — and we were told we were confused or didn’t understand, or that it was just a phase and would pass.

“How could he know he’s gay? He’s never kissed a boy!” a parent commonly asks. And at the same time, a parent never thinks to ask the question, “How would he know he’s straight? He’s never even kissed a girl!” The simple truth is that neither of us has to kiss the object of our affection to know the direction our hearts point us. Our realities, gay or straight, are just the same.

This tendency to assume that children only correctly identify their sexual orientation if it’s heterosexual is common inside the Mormon culture — and extremely damaging. It instills in gay children an alarming amount of self-doubt: From an early age we are taught not to trust our own feelings. Worse, when we’re shamed for expressing feelings for someone of the same gender, we learn the misconception that there’s something deeply wrong with us, and that has resounding implications for our health and mental health throughout our entire lives.

Recently, the Boy Scouts of America (BSA) announced its decision to support inclusive scouting for gay youth, and the Mormon Church has come out publicly in support of that policy. By acknowledging — maybe for the first time — that gay kids can and do correctly identify their orientation, the Mormon Church is poised to make powerful changes to protect the health of young gay Mormon boys. As a Mormon faith, our footprint on this planet is large — and with it comes a tremendous opportunity to do good. We have the chance to seize this opportunity to do the right thing and show the world Mormon compassion and wisdom at its best.

And here’s how we can do it.

Last year, The Family Acceptance Project delivered a Mormon version of their evidence-based research materials that outlines both rejecting and accepting behaviors — and links those behaviors directly to rates of alcohol and drug use and abuse, STI infection, depression and suicide. These Mormon materials bear the “Best Practice” seal from the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention and are the only materials to have received this kind of national recognition and endorsement. Inside the booklet, Mormon families will find guidance that not only fits within the confines of our doctrine and beliefs but actually reinforces the best parts of Mormonism: keeping our families happy, safe, and together.

The Family Acceptance Project research is not marketing based on focus groups. It is not speculation. It is not opinion — even ecclesiastical opinion. It is science. By integrating these materials into our spiritual curriculum and our vast social services programs, we can give LGBT Mormons and their families a lifeline of hope that has not existed before. We can step beyond the days when Mormon parents — many armed with good intentions but alarmingly little data — feel compelled to choose between their children and their church. Family relationships are a cornerstone to our faith as Mormons — and we’re taught that “no other success can compensate for failure in the home” (David O. McKay). The Family Acceptance Project materials have eliminated the illusion of that horrible Sophie’s Choice.

As a gay Mormon, and someone for whom scouting was just as much a rite of passage in my youth as my church activities were, this gives me hope for the generations that follow me. While the BSA announcement isn’t perfect, the decision — and the Mormon Church’s endorsement of it — open the door to help keep our gay youth safer and happier than ever before. If we make the most of this moment, we have a chance to build a healthier generation of Mormons who are better equipped to follow God’s second great commandment: to love one another — for who we genuinely are.

I went to Gay Pride in Salt Lake City about a week ago and it was great.  My wife and I had a great time, we took our friends teenager to meet one of her friends who she couldn’t find but she had fun and I paid for my wife to get a Henna tattoo and got one for the teenager too.  Now, I wanted to march with Mormons for Marriage Equality but couldn’t find the time.

In the Bible many think homosexuality is condemned but if you check out this link you will see that all is not as it appears.  The preeminent scholars and theologians on the Bible have different ideas.  One thing that is mentioned is the fact that lesbianism in never once mentioned in the Bible as being an abomination or not.  It is simply not discussed.  But the “a man shall not lie with a man as with a woman” seems to be more about treating a man as a man and not as a woman rather than condemning gay men.

I don’t think sexuality, homosexual or heterosexual orientations, are a matter of choice.  Listening to the many gay people I have known throughout my life the fact that it is not a choice is consistent.  And I know my sexuality was never a choice (and science backs this up) any more than my race or gender.

A question many have though is: why, if it is not a choice, would God make anyone gay?  Only he knows for sure.  But maybe for the same reason he created different races, different genders, differences in age groups, personalities, mental health or deficiencies, hair and eye coloring, differences in religions, philosophies and beliefs.  Precisely to encourage us to be more tolerant and loving of those who are different form ourselves.  How is that such a crazy idea?

When people say to you that you are not Christian because you’re Mormon, that you worship a different Jesus and proceed to tell you “What Mormons really believe”, how is that not at the least latently hateful? I think it is hateful because what it is doing is stripping you of your Christianity which is the core of your faith.

So by saying to a gay couple that the love they share, the compassion the desire to be one another’s best friend and partner in life, the number one champion and cheerleader of their love, that that love is an abomination to God; how is that not hateful?  How can you not see the harm and deeply negative impact of those words and those attitudes?

What’s more of an abomination to God; treating gay people in such a way that they would rather take their own life rather than suffer through that kind of treatment or just staying true to the way God made them?

What do you think God would rather see?  You unconditionally love and respect all of his children regardless of how he made them or see you “righteously judge” and condemn and harass his children because the way he made them makes you feel uncomfortable or offends your delicate sensibilities?

All love is equal in my mind and I don’t see anything insidious about love between consenting adults however it is expressed regardless of who expresses it.

How can we expect to teach our gay brothers and sisters that The Lord loves them if we do not show them love?  How can we say we love The Lord who we have not seen if we do not love our gay brothers and sisters who we have seen?

Many gay teens are left to live on the streets after being shut out of their own homes for being gay.  Would The Lord be pleased that you refused to feed, clothe or shelter your own child because they sin differently than you?  Remember that Jesus said “As ye have done it unto the least of my bretheren, ye have done it unto me.”

So how you treat gay people is something Jesus takes personally, as if you treated him that way.  And our gay brothers and sisters are considered the least amongst us given that “That is so gay” gets repeated so often, daily in fact. Gay is synonymous with the lesser.

Jesus cared for all those who had been ostracized by the society of his day.  Because they had no one else to care for them, Jesus extended love, respect and compassion to all regardless of their sexual orientation.

We are to love The Lord our God with all our heart and all our minds and all our energy.  And we are to love our neighbors as ourselves, even our enemies.  Love lights the way to the path of salvation for ourselves and for our brothers and sisters.  Remember Jesus came into the world not to condemn it but to redeem it; therefore salvation cannot be found or provided through condemnation but only through unconditional love like that Christ displayed when he provided us with the gift of the atonement.

Embrace that gift, and extend it to all, allow others to partake of it as intended.

I’m Dan Brooks a 30 something active LDS member married with 4 step children living in SLC, UT. I am interested in writing about how we can get back to being Christlike.

A person of faith has many reasons to be angry. There is such a chasm between what we want and what there is. As we seek to live a life that is in harmony with a wise and loving God the contrast with our foolish and hateful world becomes ever starker.

But what do we do with this anger? How do we use it as fuel to move us forward instead of letting it drag us down into a place of misery and hopelessness?

Twenty five years ago, the people of Chile had every reason to be angry. Since 1973 when he seized power through military coup, General Augusto Pinochet had been governing through state-run terror in the name of anti-communism and economic prosperity. His brutal regime exiled, imprisoned, tortured, and disappeared thousands of political opponents. But by 1988 international pressure had begun to build against Pinochet and he agreed to allow a referendum on his leadership to take place. So confident was he that his people loved him, and that the secret police could take care of those who didn’t, that he granted the opposition fifteen minutes of television time every night for the month leading up to the election.

So the dissidents who had been silenced for so long, had a decision to make: what would be their message to the people of Chile? One faction wanted to communicate with anger; their precious air time should document their suffering–death counts, stories of torture, families in torment over their disappeared loved ones, Could you blame them?

But another faction suggested a radical approach: to give the people of Chile fifteen minutes of hope–a vision of a free society where they could flourish without fear. They proposed upbeat spots with happy families and inspiring music. This is what life might look like, they proposed, without Pinochet. The left was aghast at this proposal, they saw it as turning their back on history, as denying the suffering they had endured, they called its supporters traitors to the cause of freedom.